Kathryn has been on my list to chat with for the podcast since the very beginning and did not disappoint. ;) So much so I even ask her a bonus question at the end! We worked together at our church for a short time and then she followed God's directing to a missionary opportunity with an organization in Germany called Eurobrass. She talks about a variety of things that stir her love for God, the slippery slope of self-absorption and a lot about God's faithfulness. One line: "The truth that God is faithful means a lot to me, because that's where our security is. It's not in what we do. And it's certainly not in how we're feeling and how close God feels to us. It's all tied up in him. And not in us." Enjoy this one, friends!
Kathryn has been on my list to chat with for the podcast since the very beginning and did not disappoint. ;) So much so I even ask her a bonus question at the end! We worked together at our church for a short time and then she followed God's directing to a missionary opportunity with an organization in Germany called Eurobrass. She talks about a variety of things that stir her love for God, the slippery slope of self-absorption and a lot about God's faithfulness. One line: "The truth that God is faithful means a lot to me, because that's where our security is. It's not in what we do. And it's certainly not in how we're feeling and how close God feels to us. It's all tied up in him. And not in us." Enjoy this one, friends!
Hey friends, welcome to Real stories of life with God, the podcast with a pretty explanatory title, because that's what we're here for a conversation with real people about their unique life with God. I'm your host Chelsea Eubank, and I'm so glad you're here. Let's jump into today's episode. All right, Catherine, tell us a little bit about you. Give us some context.
Kathryn Cheney:All right. My name is Katherine Cheney. I was born and grew up in Georgia. I am a trumpet player. And I have done various musical odd jobs one way or another for my entire career. So straight out of graduate school, I worked for 12 years on the music staff at karaoke Baptist. You and I were co workers for a minute there.
Chelsea Eubank:12 years though, I don't think I knew you're there that long. Yeah, maybe I did. And I just never counted. I didn't
Kathryn Cheney:count until I realized something else was coming. And then also, oh, 12 years?
Unknown:Been a long time. Yeah.
Kathryn Cheney:Yeah. And it was, I mean, I like to say that I learned how to be an adult follower of Jesus at Coyote. And that was just really a, an amazing place for, for God to form kind of my my adult faith, because that's kind of a different ballgame. You know, you go through school, and you do children's ministry, and youth group, and college and career stuff. But then it's doing real life as a believer just feels like a different ballgame. And so it was, it was a great place to learn that. So. And then 10 years ago, I got involved with an organization called Euro brass. We are a German nonprofit that basically uses brass music to try to connect people with Jesus. brass music has a really special place in German church culture. Ah, so it's it's a great way to communicate with people and to to engage with people and the organization does a summer concert tour. We spend three weeks traveling through Germany playing concerts and telling people about who God is and what he's done for us. And that's how I got to know Euro brass was as a member of that ensemble. And then that turned into an opportunity to come be part of this full time. So the story I tell people is that I came to Euro brass once and I loved it so much that I decided to do it forever.
Unknown:Year round rounds. Yeah, all the time. Yeah,
Kathryn Cheney:yeah. So I'm now part of the leadership team for Euro brass. So we plan and organize the tour. But we also work with church, breast choir musicians in Germany year round, trying to help them improve musically, but also to consistently connect the musical and the spiritual aspects of making music in church.
Unknown:So cool.
Kathryn Cheney:I want to be like a vocational missionary. You know, I never thought that was going to be my profession. And now I have a visa that literally says you are allowed to live here for your work as a missionary. But the deal was that I have this thing that I love to do that I feel like I can do reasonably well and this is where it fits. So this is where I am.
Chelsea Eubank:Yeah, super cool. Okay. I like to start by reading two of the verses that inspired some of my questions. There in Matthew 22 Jesus is asked which commandment in law is the greatest and he says Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and the second love your neighbor as yourself. So my first question for you is what currently stirs your love for God?
Kathryn Cheney:If you ask me again next week, you might get a totally different answer.
Unknown:I'm the same way
Kathryn Cheney:which which I think is really cool that you know, we we show up in a different place every day, and God finds something regardless of where we are that that sparks us for that day or week or whatever. But some of the things that come back for me over and over again are no surprise music. Both you know, sometimes I'll just hear a song that's just a Oh, that that's exactly what's in my heart right now. Sometimes it's a really, like, I play the trumpet a lot, it's my job. And so sometimes playing is just practicing. And it's woodshedding. And it's trying to get this thing, right. But sometimes it's just, this is how I want to talk to God today. Hmm. And that's, that's always, you know, I wish I could say that happens every day. And it doesn't. And it's special when it does. So then sometimes, have you ever seen a performance or heard a record where it's just you can tell that the performer is just having an amazing time doing their thing? Yes. When I see a performance like that, when it's somebody just digging in and using their gifts and enjoying them, I have no idea if that performer knows anything about the source of their abilities, but it, it just fires me up to say, you know, it makes me thankful that God has gifted that person in that way, even if they don't know it, it also makes me want to go practice, but that's. So one of the other things is spiritual conversations. So thanks for this, by the way, but you know, I, I've been fortunate to have a lot of great friends who turn my attention back to God. If I want to freak out about something, or when I get stuck in the performance spiral, you know, where I think that I have to do, and, um, you, you might want to look at who God is, that is
Unknown:back around,
Kathryn Cheney:you know, the way it was given to you. Yeah, and so I'm very thankful for that. But I was also the kid in the in school who learned by teaching the study group, something, something becomes real to me, and really plants itself in my memory and begins to work into my life when I communicate it to other people. So that's just being able to talk about about God is a huge thing for me. And then the other thing is, seeing, just being able to look at the course of my life, not because of anything I've done, but because you know, there's this great him, Oh, God, our help and ages past. That is basically, we trust you because we see what you've done for us before. And when I see the way that God has led me and the way that in impossible situations, he's been with me. And the way that when I thought I was wandering in the wilderness, I look back four years later, and so Oh, that's what you were doing. Being able to see that just really, to me, it's undeniable that he's at work in my life.
Chelsea Eubank:I feel like to one of those things are a common thread, maybe I love all of those things. I hear especially the spiritual conversations, and especially someone else's kind of passion when they're truly like, delighting in something, like delighting and how they're made or what they're doing. And like, yes, yes, feeling de I feel the joy of the Lord, whether they know him or not. Right, yeah, but one common thread I feel like I was hearing too is, the more we know of him. And the more we think about him, the more we love him, because he's just perfect. You know, it's like a bottomless ocean of beauty and wonder. And so it's like, whether it's music or talking about him like that we have a Dallas Willard, quote, tape to our fridge, because I really would like to memorize it. And it's probably been up there for about a year and a half. I don't know if I could pull it the whole thing I'm not going to try just in case I totally mess it up. But the first line says, The first and most basic thing we can and must do is to keep God before our minds. It's like that's our part and, you know, caring for our soul and practicing, practicing his presence is just keeping him before us and all of those things are ways of doing that if we are willing to let them do it. You know, I mean, creation or music or someone else's story or something if I if I let it, direct me or reorient me. I'm naturally going to experience more of God or love more often. And because I'm seeing more or knowing more, you know? Yeah, it's great. Speaking up, you know, like said thank you for this. But I think that's probably one of the reasons why I'm even doing this honestly. Because I feel like I mean, obviously, when our lot from the Bible, we learn a lot from church and leaders and pastors and sermons, and we learn a lot from the Holy Spirit. But I feel like I do learn something unique about God, when I hear how other people are relating to him how that because they're wired differently than me. And so they may something may strike them about God, or what he's teaching them that I may never have really understood or experienced before, of his nature or something that I get to kind of through them, maybe that really causes me to love him or, or want more of him.
Kathryn Cheney:I hope I'm not going too far down a rabbit trail here, go, I love the rabbit. I have a friend who did her doctoral research on learning styles, like different ways that you it's not just like visual or auditory or whatever. It's more ways that you take in and process information. And I couldn't even tell you the details of the model that she was working with. But the thing that I found really interesting was that she said, it's actually super effective for people to learn against type. Like if you have a certain way that your brain is used to working and processing information, sometimes the greatest growth comes when you try it from a totally different perspective. Okay, yeah. Like if you if you normally work with work really well with concrete details, then try taking a more abstract approach, that sort of thing. And that every once in a while, that's the thing that that opens the mind up. And so I think when we hear from people who are differently wired from ourselves, like, oh, oh, that that could be a really cool thing that I would have never thought on my own.
Chelsea Eubank:Yes. Yeah. I love that. On the other hand, is there anything that currently stifles your love for God?
Kathryn Cheney:In general, self absorption. I think of myself as a sort of introspective person, like most of the time, I like to think that I've got a pretty good handle on what I'm thinking and feeling. And that's really useful in a lot of ways. But it can also really easily turn into pointless navel gazing. You know, and a few weeks ago, I had, I had gotten to a point where I was just, like, ruminating and obsessing on this one thing over and just at some point, it occurred to me, you're trusting your entire life to God, or at least you should be, you can probably trust him for this thing as well. That's probably, like, he's probably not gonna just, you know, drop the bag and walk off at that point. Pretty sure it's gonna take care of you. So, yes, yeah, when I get too deep in my head. And you know, it's like you were saying, when we don't keep Jesus in front of us, then it's easy to just crawl into ourselves. Oh, my goodness,
Unknown:I could have said all of that. And you said it so beautifully. But the whole time, I'm, like, exploding. I'm like, Oh, my gosh, me too. I'm the same way.
Kathryn Cheney:And sometimes, I mean, sometimes you just have to say, Lord, I have no idea what's going on. But I'm going to keep on doing the thing. Yeah. And trust that, that in the end, you will honor that and hopefully also show me what's going on.
Unknown:Right. Right. It might be
Kathryn Cheney:I think, when you had West Gardiner, on a while ago, I think it was him that said something about kind of the shadow side of so many deaths. And I really think and I thought that's something that's particularly true here. You know, that the being willing to examine yourself is a good thing, but that's the
Unknown:shadow side. Right?
Kathryn Cheney:I've never been skydiving and I do not plan on it. But there are lots of you know, really cool adventure experiences that I want to have and I don't need that one. It feels like the moment When you're out of the plane, but you haven't pulled the cord yet, you know that there's a thing that should catch you that, you know, according to everything, you know it is going to catch you. But for that split second, you're hurtling through space and waiting on it. Yeah. Yeah, it was good.
Chelsea Eubank:Do you have any? Okay, one last thing for everyone? Do you have any, like I was saying like that the Dallas Willard, quote has been really helpful to just have like a super simple mantra. I mean, I probably say that first phrase 20 times a day, internally. You know, I'm just, he's just deconstructing that habit of leaning on myself, you know, gazing up myself, like, keep God before your mind somehow, whether I'm outside with Anna or doing laundry or whatever. Like, think about God simply doesn't even have to be some scholarly academic thing. But, um, do you have? Have you found any for you personally, have you found any phrase or prayer or habit for you, that kind of helps you helps that threshold stay a little smaller.
Kathryn Cheney:I wish I could say that there was something that I successfully do every day. But But one thing that that I find that comes up over and over again, is years ago. We did the song in the choir at karaoke. And to be honest, it was like, I couldn't sing it for you, because I don't remember the. But I do remember the whole point of the thing, which was we fix our eyes on you. You know, that was the first line, we fix our eyes on you. And that comes back to me over and over again. Yeah,
Chelsea Eubank:maybe it's just like a muscle. It's just like a muscle you train. You know? Like, if you just keep doing it. Hopefully it will establish some level of strength and so it doesn't miss it kind of becomes more second nature maybe. Right. Okay. Fill in the blank. The truth that God is blank means a lot to you. Because, like,
Kathryn Cheney:the truth that God is faithful means a lot to me, because that's where our security is. It's not in what we do. And it's certainly not in how we're feeling and how close God feels to us. It's, it's, it's all tied up in him. And not in us. You know, there's this there's this great Eugene Peterson quote, that I'm going to butcher where he's talking, he's talking a little bit about those those dry seasons where, you know, you feel like your prayers just get stuck at the ceiling. And, and he says, you know, how, how do I know that I won't fall away, or even worse, that I've already done it is you cannot unconsciously drift from faith to perdition. Like we were sheep, we wander off. We do dumb stuff. You know, we we get stuck in our feelings. We break our promises, but God does not break. There's it's in Second Timothy I think somewhere where it's he He's faithful. Because he just is and he cannot violate his own character. Right. Yeah,
Chelsea Eubank:I think is huge. is huge. Like I really liked that Eugene Peterson quote, because I think is especially if you kind of tend to be like a performer earner. people pleaser type, um, then it's easy to fall prey to the idea that when I'm doing when I when I in my standard, if I measured the day, the end of the day and I say I did pretty good. Then I'm like, Okay, I feel close to God. God is faithful, you know, favor presence of God today, for say, a different day where I never cracked my Bible. Maybe I was so full. I didn't really think about him that much. Maybe I turned to Netflix, instead of prayer. Maybe I turned to others that you know, whatever. Then at the end of the day, I'm like, Oh, I bet he's disappointed to me. From what like from Monday to Tuesday, God's changed his mind. You I don't have that much control over him. He's God. And I'm not like it's like, I cannot make him not be himself. Nothing. Nothing that happens in the world. Yeah. Can make God not be who he says he is. And what kind of pride a little bit Am I like, oh, well, you know, I didn't read my Bible for XY and Z or I wasn't thinking about him. Do you think you're that powerful? Let's just think about it on like a really base level. Do you think that you have the power to change God's nature. Right? Deli when you say it like that, you know, but how often do my feelings get stuck in that in that place of reacting? Or making choices more out of fear of disappointment than I do? Confident that he loves me delights in me, huh?
Kathryn Cheney:Yeah, like it. Yeah. Sorry. What you said is absolutely right. And I was about to attempt to offer a very weak analogy that I could take apart without having to think too hard. So I'm not gonna waste anybody's time.
Chelsea Eubank:Oh, well. Okay, my last question is, what is something you're looking forward to?
Kathryn Cheney:I am looking forward to the euro brush tour, I am super hopeful that we are going to be able to carry out the tour that we've planned. Um, one of the things that we've kind of thought and seen is that, you know, it's been, it's been a long season of being in and out of various. It's been a long time since we've been in any sort of lockdown. But you know, all of these different restrictions on public life and whatever. And we've really sense that there's, there's a longing for the sort of thing. That's what we want to offer. You know, even even last year when we did, we did four concerts in the summer. Yeah, yeah, we just did a few weekend things instead of a long tour. And we built the program around the idea that, yes, everything is hard right now. But God offers us a place to take everything that we are carrying, and put it down and live in his hope. You know, and but at the beginning, you know, we'd say, The last year has been difficult for everybody. And I just watch people's faces. And it was like, you can see people thinking, Oh, thank goodness, we're going to talk about this. No, we're gonna admit that this has not been a good time. And so I really do, and just the the fact that people, people want to be able to get up and go to a concert again, you know. So I think there's, there's an opportunity, you know, God, God is going to accomplish his purposes, whether there's a Euro brass tour or not, we're all super clear on that. But I also think that there's an opportunity and a possibility that he can use that in some ways that maybe we haven't even considered yet. That can be pretty cool. So that is really cool to think about. And it's just fun. It's always fun to see how these 12 People come from all over the place and turn into a team and a family in the time that we're together. So, yeah,
Chelsea Eubank:that is awesome. Okay, I'm gonna sneak one more question here. All right. Because they you, were you in Germany two years before? COVID? Or how long were you there before born? How many years? Have you been in
Kathryn Cheney:about two and a half years? I got here in fall of 2017.
Chelsea Eubank:Okay. I kind of want to ask what something you feel like you've learned about God, since you've been in Germany that you didn't know before? Oh, I
Kathryn Cheney:don't know. If there's been something totally new that I've learned so much as things that I've experienced in different ways. It's, it's interesting, sometimes. Some of that can be language stuff. There are there are songs that I learned originally in English. And I learned the German translation and it's it's a good faithful translation, but there's just something about the way it said in that other language that just flips my brain to a whole new way of looking at it. That's very cool. That you know the song give thanks. Give thanks with a grateful heart give thanks. Yeah, the the second part of that is and now let the weak say I'm strong. Let the poor say I'm rich because of what the Lord has done. Um, for us, and the German again, it's similar, you know, let the weak say I'm strong with the say, the poor say I'm rich, because what was one on the cross is mine. And for some reason, oh, for some reason that shift is enough that when I hear the English I think, you know, God has made me strong. God has made me rich, Cool, good. And when I hear the German I think Christ is my strength. And Christ is my my wealth. Hmm. And that's, that's a whole different ballgame, at least for me. And it's so weird, because it's the same thing. Right? But it just, it hits the different, which is a really cool thing. I've also just seen God's faithfulness in, you know, I was talking about it earlier, one of the biggest things when I kind of looked back at what God has done for me in the past, you know, I hauled off and moved to a place where I didn't know anybody. And I found a faith community. And I found friends here. And just to see, the way that he prepared a way to this place for me, is just, you know, I can't, I can't do anything, but say, Thank you, you know, every time every time I look back at that, and see the ways that that he's been at work, it's been a really intense experience of that.
Chelsea Eubank:And I so appreciate this. Thank you.
Kathryn Cheney:Thank you. Wonderful,
Chelsea Eubank:listening friends. It means a lot that you added us to your day today. Thank you so much. Wherever you find yourself on your journey with Jesus. I hope you finished this episode with your faith cheered refreshed or strengthened. Until next time